faith . joeandjessie . net

In Eastern Orthodoxy, Orthodox can mean true belief and/or true worship. It would be easy to go down a “how” path. For instance, I might ask “Have her beliefs stayed pure because her worship stayed pure or has her worship stayed pure because her beliefs stayed pure?” This might be like the question, “which came first, the chicken or the egg?” Could it also be because Christ has said that hell shall not overtake it (Matthew 16:18)?

There are many reasons to convert to Eastern Orthodoxy from Protestantism. However, conversion can be difficult because there may be a lot perceived risks. For that matter, why convert at all? Is it really that important? if you believe you’re optimal just the way you are or just where you are, then there doesn’t seem to be a real need or reason for conversion, eh?

I started with Orthodoxy’s historical foundations and claims and have gradually accepted her doctrinal positions through study, discussion, prayer, and participation in the services. But, this is certainly not the only path.

If I convert, there is a reason. Despite how or why I started, if I convert, I convert because I believe I have come in contact with the definite residency* of the Church that was established at Pentecost. With that comes all kinds of ramifications (sacramentally, doctrinally, etc.). I then must convert because I desire to be faithful to what I have come to know (Luke 12:48). The truth is, I must always be continually converting from error to truth, from darkness to light, from good to great, from glory to glory, and that is difficult.

*This is with the understanding that “We can say where the Church is; we cannot say where she is not” (Ware, The Orthodox Church).

I realize that I have not given you an update in quite some time. If you have wanted one, I ask your forgiveness. Having now attended Orthodox services for over two years, some may say that I am no farther along that when I first began. In the first few months, I was trying to iron out some of the remaining questions I had about Orthodoxy and found myself believing that I should stop asking questions and just be part of the daily life. It is now 9:00 in the morning on Sunday. My wife, my daughter, and I will be leaving the house soon to participate in the Divine Liturgy. Legem credendi lex statuat supplicandi.

Again, prompted by a post by a friend, I sent this email to discuss some interesting topics. He was reading a lot of Tony Campolo’s books.

I was reading the Wikipedia entry on him a while ago and had starting reading about the “Christian Left.” I think I found Consistent Life (http://www.consistent-life.org/) using his page as a starting point and ultimately through the Consistent Life Ethic page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistent_Life_Ethic).

We have mentioned it before, but it is interesting to me that many of the “Consistent Life” beliefs (e.g. anti-war, -abortion, -poverty, -capital punishment) were held by early Christians. The book, “Will the Real Heretics Please Stand Up” (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0924722002/) helped reawaken me to this fact.

There is a part in the Orthodox liturgy were we pray for the armed forces. This has never bothered me because our prayer is not for their victory or in any sort of agreement with their mission. The prayer is:

“For the President of our country, for all civil authorities, and for the armed forces, let us pray to the Lord.”

and later, our priest includes a prayer for the:

“government of our country and its armed forces everywhere, especially those serving in [[location]]”

A part of my personal prayer routine includes something like this:

“Be mindful, O Lord, of all civil authorities, of armed forces, of this city in which we dwell, and of every city and land; grant us peaceful times, that we may lead a calm and tranquil life in all godliness and sanctity.”

I definitely believe there is a biblical warrant for praying for those in authority (I Timothy 2). Governmental authority is truly a mystery to me. Somehow God establishes authority (Romans 13:1) and then asks us to subject ourselves to it (Titus 3, I Peter 2). That definitely requires trust.

Before the post that prompted this email, he had posted some other comments on patriotism in the pulpit. I would talk about that now, but maybe I should save that for later.

A friend of mine made a post to his Xanga site (which he unfortunately has now taken down and I can’t link to) in April of 2006. He was asking some great questions and I wanted to comment, but was not a Xanga user. I chose to compose this email message instead. I quote his post and then respond. Note: I am hesitant to post my replies because of the lack of his original post, but figured it would be good to post them anyway.

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“. . . What is necessary to be saved?”
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I think this is an important question. I would say that genuine love is necessary. In Lk. 10:25-37, Jesus tells the teacher of the law that one who inherits eternal life is one who loves God and his neighbor. Love, as we know, can’t be formulated. Love consists of a persistent, volitional attitude and action to God, one’s neighbor, and oneself. We cannot say exactly how one loves God or neighbor, but like the teacher of the law, we will know it when we see it.

In my opinion, it is important to define salvation. What is salvation and why do we need it? What are we saved from or what are we saved for? We know that salvation is not a private event, that it involves public confession[1] and a way of life or pattern of action[2]. Finally, it is our eternal hope from which we gain strength[3]. Many view salvation as a one time event, an irreversible relationship. This view is worthy of evaluation. Can salvation be thought of as a one-time, static thing? Some see salvation as a journey[4], a way[5], where Jesus himself is the gateway for our coming and going[6].

This reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from Bishop Kallistos Ware, in his book, The Orthodox Way:

“Why has God allowed the angels and man to sin? Why does God permit evil and suffering? We answer: Because he is a God of love. Love implies sharing, and love also implies freedom. As a Trinity of love, God desired to share his life with created persons made in his image, who would be capable of responding to him freely and willingly in a relationship of love. Where there is no freedom there can be no love . . . God, therefore—desiring to share his love—created, not robots who would obey him mechanically, but angels and human beings endowed with free choice . . . Without freedom there would be no sin. But without freedom man would not be in God’s image; without freedom man would not be capable of entering into communion with God in a relationship of love.”

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“. . . how much of this knowledge is needed for salvation?”
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Ultimately we believe that eternal life is knowing God[7], not just knowing about him[8].

I am not exactly sure what the “bare minimum” is in regards to knowledge. Although knowledge is certainly mentioned in regards to salvation[9], the most common words associated with salvation seem to be: belief[10], faith[11], and grace[12], all in regards to the work of the Holy Spirit[13]. Of course, the belief or faith must be in something or someone.

In Luke 12:48 Jesus tells a parable that I believe is applicable. He says, “From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.” There are standards of belief, e.g. the Nicene Creed, but ultimately we trust in the goodness of God and go by the spirit, not the letter. Although I believe that God is no respecter of persons, I like to believe that he deals with us individually according to the measure of faith[14] and knowledge he has given us.

I would like to also say that I believe there is a tendency to try to reduce things to simple formula. I try to avoid strict formulas, especially as they pertain to God. There is also a tendency to minimalize things. Although there is a place for “keeping it simple” one does not want to strip everything down to “just what is required.”

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“. . . in one sense all theologies are heresies. For theologies, like heresies, are major or minor distortions of the truth…In other words, what you believe may be partly correct, but is certainly not completely correct.”
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I have serious semantic problems with this statement. I would rather say, what you believe may be correct, but inadequate. This inadequacy, however, does not make the belief incorrect. A blind person can learn about the shape, smell, or taste of an apple. We know all these things, yet also know what it looks like. This is a fuller understanding, but it does not negate the other facets that the blind person has come to know.

Bishop Kallistos, in his book The Orthodox Church, says “Positive or ‘cataphatic’ theology — the ‘way of affirmation’ — must always be balanced and corrected by the employment of negative language. Our positive statements about God — that He is good, wise, just and so on — are true as far as they go, yet they cannot adequately describe the inner nature of the deity.”

On the subject of heresy, I would add to this statement another quote I found recently on an Amazon book review: “Heresies survive by the truths they contain.” I would agree. In some way, I often relate to what has been considered heresy because it most often contains some facet that I feel may be worth mention.

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“We must always be open to further insights that will give us fuller understanding of what God is all about.”
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I definitely agree.

I pray that my remarks are helpful. Pray for me, the worst of sinners and very least of all saints[15]. The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.

Joe Rodgers

“But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life. Be merciful to those who doubt; snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.” Jude 1:20-23

Endnotes:

[1] Rom. 10:8-10; I Tim. 6:11-13; II Cor. 9:13-14; Heb. 3:1,4:14,10:23; see also Mt. 10:32; Lk. 12:8
[2] Jn. 13:34-35; see also Rom. 2:6-8; Gal. 6:7-9
[3] I Pet. 1:3-6; Rom. 8:23-25; Tit. 2:12-14
[4] I Cor. 1:18-19; II Cor. 2:14-16; Php. 2:12-13; I Pet. 2:1-3; Ac. 2:42-47; see also Php. 1:6; I Th. 5:23; Col. 2:6-7
[5] Ac. 24:13-15
[6] Jn. 10:8-10
[7] Jn. 17:2-4
[8] Jn. 5:39-40
[9] II Tim. 3:14-16
[10] Mk. 16:16; Ac. 16:29-31
[11] Lk. 7:49-51
[12] Ac. 15:10-12
[13] I Th. 2:12-14
[14] Rom. 12:3
[15] I Tim. 1:16, Eph. 3:8

Here is some email correspondence I had with a friend back in April of 2004. He was writing a paper on heresies. I liked some of the sources I pointed him to and wanted to post part of that email for posterity’s sake.

To answer your question about sources on heresies, I really don’t know of any common primary sources. Here are a couple I found on Amazon, some that I have seen and seem OK:

http://isbn.nu/1565633652
http://isbn.nu/0664221688
http://isbn.nu/080599873X (*)
http://isbn.nu/0880294558 (*)
http://isbn.nu/0800629639 (*)
http://isbn.nu/0819215139 (*)
http://isbn.nu/0192852108 (*)

*interesting, but maybe hard to find

I have this book, and you can borrow it if you like, but it might not be exactly what your looking for:
http://isbn.nu/0924722002

You may want to focus on Christology, as this was a primary area of heresy for the early church. Many of the seven Ecumenical Councils were established to directly combat early heresies and so sources on the councils may yield some good results as well.

A search at Christianity Today might also yield some useful materials:
http://www.ctlibrary.com/keyword.html?id=900 (keyword: heresy)

You might want to take a look at this book, it seems to have some really good help on doing research in church history (listing of primary sources, etc.):
http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0802808263

In fact, searching for heresy + church at Google Book Search revealed some other sources:
http://books.google.com/books?q=heresy+church

And of course, looking over at a few encyclopedias couldn’t hurt:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heresy
http://orthodoxwiki.org/Heresy

This is such a pleasant icon. I believe it is my favorite modern icon of Christ. I believe it was written by a Fr. Andrei at Holy Trinity Monastery in Jordanville (ROCOR). We currently have the matched icon of the Theotokos at our home. We hope to purchase this one soon.

This is for me, not so much for you…

At some point I believe I wanted to stop looking around at what everyone else was doing and getting caught up in someone else’s path. I’m not there yet. I always want to know what’s going on in technology, church trends, music, art, etc. Trying to keep up with it all is a huge job in and of itself. A couple years ago I was obsessed with what was going on in cutting edge web design using web standards. I recently dropped a bunch of religious RSS feeds I was reading because it was just too much to keep up with. I think there is something in my flesh that tells me I will somehow miss out on great opportunities if I don’t stay on top of things. In my heart I truly believe I would be OK if I didn’t know what everyone was saying, reading, and listening to. I know it would be hard, but I think I could love without the internet.

I know it is said that we should stay up-to-date and informed, that way we know how to effectively minister to others, but I’m not sure I believe that is necessary. I don’t believe “my ministry” will be dampened by my lack of cutting edge culture knowledge. Knowledge of culture seems OK, but not at the expense of common sense love.

Life seems to go in cycles. There are those times when all seems right, that is, it seems like I’ve done everything right. Now is not one of those times. Sometimes I feel like I am the biggest mess of a person that exists. There is a hesitancy to not linger on this idea for very long, but I’m not sure that is always best. I awoke last night around 4:00am, decided to take a shower, and nearly broke down under the weight of how stressed out I am and how self-inflicted it all seems. I allowed myself that short period of time to be worried, pray, and regroup. Don’t worry, I’m not going to bludgeon myself to death. I think feeling like a failure is OK sometimes.

Pray for me, the worst of sinners and very least of all saints (I Tim. 1:16, Eph. 3:8)

Just got home from one of our frequent trips to Barnes & Noble. We often go to unwind and finish out the day. Jessie and I like to go to see what books are being written and occasionally buy one. I sometimes like to linger in the Christianity section just to listen to the “Christian” chatter. I tend to stay on the general Christianity shelves and leave the devotional readings alone. I’ve run into friends, friend-of-friends, old neighborhood acquaintances, random people, and even multi-level marketing recruiters (they stick their cards in books). Tonight was no different. I heard some guys talking about Rob Bell. I knew he spoke in Atlanta recently because my friend Jay said he was coming. I decided to ask them if they had gone to hear him speak. The obviously older guy, holding the big stack of books in his hands, said that he had. We spoke a little about some of the recent books he had read and I asked him some questions about what he thought about them. A lot of them were the usual fare nowadays: Brian McLaren, Donald Miller, N.T. Wright. It was obvious this guy read all kinds of books though. I asked if he had read “The Orthodox Way,” by Kallistos Ware. He had not. I chatted a little about Orthodoxy. I’m not sure, but I don’t think he knew much about it (that’s OK, neither do I!). Turns out, the two younger guys that were with him are Lee University students. Not only that, one of them is the son of the pastor at Jessie’s mom’s church and the other is the son of my old youth pastor. It’s a small world. The older guy, his name is Kells Weatherby, was so convinced I should read Velvet Elvis by Rob Bell that he offered to buy me a copy. As we walked toward the front of the store, I found out that he had worked as the high school ministry director at Mt. Paran North Church of God for a long time and had been in ministry 10+ years (including, what I found after a Google search, a stint at the one and only Brownsville Assembly). Turns out that his father started Feed My Lambs Ministries, a ministry that provides free Christian schooling for economically impoverished areas. Unfortunately, Kell’s father died last year. Since then, he has taken over as president of the ministry. He also leads a 7:22ish thing in my neck of the woods called The Collision. I’m not exactly sure what The Collision is all about, but the previous meetings seemed to be centered around discussion of provocative questions about Christianity. It was great meeting everyone and I hope that I can talk with them in the future.

While recently looking for Orthodox podcasts I came across the spiritual reflections of Fr. John Brian Paprock, a priest at Holy Transfiguration Orthodox Mission. This congregation is a part of the Mission Society of St. Gregorios of India, which is an extension of the Malankara Orthodox Church (also known as Indian Orthodox Church). The Indian Orthodox Church is not to be confused with the Mar Thoma Church (Anglican Communion) or the Malankara Jacobite Syriac Orthodox Church (another Oriental Orthodox Church). Boy, if I would have said that it would have been a mouthful.

I listened to one of the sermons and I really enjoyed it. While looking through some of the Wikipedia articles I came across a term I had not heard before, miaphysitism. It is evidentally the preferred term to use to speak of the position about the nature(s) of Christ that is held by the Oriental Orthodox churches. They are often called monophysite, a term that many of them find offensive and categorically wrong.

All very fascinating.